From Pulpit to Legislature: Why School Choice Is a Ministry Issue

Nathan Sanders: Welcome, everyone. My name is Nathan Sanders, and I’m with Ed Choice, and you’re watching Sunday School Choice, a new podcast series that we’ve started talking about the church, the faith community, and how that relates to education freedom. And so today we are joined by a very special guest, Dr. Doug Richey. I will let Dr. Richey speak a little bit about his background in just one second, but Dr. Richey is a former pastor, and he’s also a former lawmaker in the state of Missouri, so he has lots of perspective, especially when it comes to school choice and how that relates to the church and how churches can benefit from that and also expand our ministry from school choice programs. So, Dr. Richey, thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Doug Richey: Thank you, Nathan. It’s wonderful to be a part. I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Nathan Sanders: Likewise. We’re going to jump right into it, waste no time. Dr. Richey, tell us a little bit about how you got into this world of pastoring and ministering to folks in your church, and then also when you joined the legislature a few years ago in Missouri. How did you get into that role? What inspired you to get into these roles? We’d love to hear about it.

Dr. Doug Richey: Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I have 26 years of pastoral ministry behind me. I love that work and certainly feel compelled to engage in that. And I look forward in the future to continue to be involved in pastoral ministry in various ways. But yeah, 26 years of pastoral ministry. Then I, back in 2017, January 17, I announced that I was going to be running for state representative. There was an open seat. I felt compelled to do that. I was not anticipating that at all. And thankfully, as I was carefully considering the Lord’s direction on that, I was able to see a win in 2018 for my first term and ended up serving in Missouri’s House of Representatives for six years. And then that actually just came to an end in December 31 of 24. And I am now working for a nonprofit that works in the space of preserving and protecting constitutional liberties, in particular, First Amendment, religious liberties, freedom of conscience, parental rights, and that even kind of translates over into issues regarding education for children.

I think the other part of that question was what got me into the education space. I have always enjoyed the academic challenge. My wife accuses me of collecting degrees, and it’s certainly not something I do for accolades. I just enjoy that context. I enjoy being challenged to think. And after my undergrad, I did three masters and a doctorate, and I firmly believe in the value and importance of excellence in education. I believe in the classical purpose of education, and it’s more than just merely career preparation and career readiness. That certainly is a part of the importance of education, but the real purpose of education goes far beyond that. So I brought that with me into the legislature, certainly pastoring families that had their children in public school, families that were homeschooling, families that had their children in private schools. And I see the value of all of them and the decisions that parents are making. I celebrate the importance of parental involvement. They have a responsibility and a commensurate authority in that respect.

And I found myself in the General Assembly, and I was serving on the Budget Committee and serving on the Appropriations Committee for education, both higher ed as well as K-12. And I began to see very quickly just how problem-ridden the bureaucratic element had become in terms of the way public education was being run. And that put me on this path of asking questions. I love asking questions. And yeah, I mean, it was, I believe, a consequential six years of working within the context of education policy and education funding. It was not always easy by any means, but it was very rewarding.

Nathan Sanders: Yeah, absolutely. Love to hear that. Love to hear about your background. It’s funny because I have many family members and friends who are pastors or in the ministry in some aspect, and they have all been through seminary at different levels of education. And one thing that they always relate is that even when you’re finished with school, finished with classes, you’re never really finished with learning, especially ministry and all the things that come with that and pastoring. So I do appreciate you and your ministry and your years as a pastor, and especially your years as a lawmaker, because that’s a tough gig. And so we appreciate you. So one thing I want to ask, kind of segueing into when you became a lawmaker and your six years in the Missouri House, what was the more surprising things in terms of opposition or pushback or generally challenges that you faced as a lawmaker when it came to school choice? A lot of folks, especially on our side of the issue, they see school choice as a no-brainer. It may not be for everyone, and even lots of Christians and lots of folks on the right side of the issue can see that even if it’s not right for their family, but there are lots of families in Missouri and nationwide that absolutely can utilize school choice and you can work for them. So what were some of the surprising things that you encountered as a lawmaker when it came to school choice and the freedom movement as a whole?

Dr. Doug Richey: Yeah, well, there are a number of things that come to my mind. You know, one, when we had hours upon hours of hearings regarding funding for public education, talking about educational outcomes in the K-12 space, it was very common to hear people try to justify less than encouraging results, right? Trying to justify just the low educational outcomes, you know. I was encouraging and certainly believe it to be correct to urge for excellence and to press for excellence, and yet there was always this quick statement regarding, well, you know, just because we are less than proficient doesn’t mean that we’re not doing well, right? And so they would be quick to do that.

And then there was just a number of reasons that would always be given. I mean, there’s always this passing of the buck, you know, when negative data would come out, it was never anyone’s fault, right? So I think the first was just the fact that the educational bureaucracy is very quick to circle the wagons and to give every reason under the sun why poor results are okay and that it’s not really their fault that those results are coming in the way that they are.

Secondly, I was, I quite frankly was put off by the fact that it is a fairly constant refrain coming from the educational establishment that they know what’s best for children and parents don’t. And, you know, I would, I would speak with, and it’s certainly not the case for everybody, you know, we have to be quick to always acknowledge the fact there are great administrators out there, there are great teachers, great school board members, but I can tell you that it would take more than two hands to count the number of times I heard from a particular unique superintendent that would say something along the lines of, listen, I know what’s best for these kids. And I didn’t push back and say, no, you don’t. Their parents do. And they would, they would then push back and I would say, what’s their birth date? Give me the name of a kid and tell me their birth date. Give me the name of a kid and tell me what scares them in the middle of the night. Tell me the name of a kid and explain to me what they truly enjoy in life. And what their aspirations and hopes are. You don’t know, but let me tell you who does, their parents. So this mindset of, it’s an elitist expert mindset. I mean, we’re the experts, sit down, be quiet and listen to us. And what else ultimately happens, the consequence of that is that they actually believe what they’re saying. That leads them to policies that trample the rights and freedoms of parents. So that’s, that’s the deal.

And I think thirdly is just what, what tends to happen and I’ll leave it at this, is that they take the exceptional cases and they make them the norm, right? So they will, they will quickly run to an example of a child who has, who has been truly neglected and or harmed by the way in which that child’s parents are caring for him or her. Then they will extrapolate from that, this perspective that because that happens, we need to do this regarding every child. And I, again, that’s just, it’s a, it’s a poor way to approach policy. There are ways within public policy that we can address those exceptional cases that are heartbreaking, but that in no way gives public schools or, you know, public education policy, the freedom to run roughshod over 98% of the parents and treat them as though they are to be suspected for harming their children.

Nathan Sanders: That’s one thing about anecdotes is I could also find an example on the other side of that to, you know, combat that, even though it’s not real data, right? It’s, you know, coming to hear that, you know, they may find an excuse or some terrible scenario of, you know, a child being, you know, mistreated or parents making a bad decision. You could probably go search Google for like five minutes and find a student mistreated in the classroom at a public school, right? You’re, you’re absolutely right. Parents do know best and, you know, at EdChoice, we do lots of polling data that show that parents do know best, but also they know exactly what they want and what they want are, you know, options, school choice, and they want options in their lives, whether that be homeschooling, which is on the rise since the COVID-19 pandemic, but also private schooling and micro-schooling and all these things on the rise are truly cool to see. So I guess segueing into your role as a pastor before and during, when you were a lawmaker, another two-part question that I’d love to hear is one, why should churches be involved in this movement, this school choice, parental right, education freedom movement? Second to that, how can specifically pastors and leaders and churches, faith leaders, engage in the policy process?

Dr. Doug Richey: Sure. Well, I think we need to remember our rich heritage as Christians, the way in which churches have been directly involved in education going well beyond the entry of public schools in our country. The Christian faith in Western civilization really is the, it was the impetus behind so much of the movement to have a well educated populace. Everything from the higher education, the universities, the colleges in Europe and the UK, early in our founding era in our own country, there was this compulsion that Christians had to encourage and to find ways to help educate children with respect to what is good and right and commendable, to pursue the beautiful and to understand the world around them.

There was this desire to pursue truth because Christians historically, and rightfully so, because it’s a biblical concept, there’s this compulsion to pursue truth because it’s in truth that you find true liberty, not only for the soul in the gospel of Jesus Christ, but it’s the truth that you see play out in life and in the way in which God has ordered and designed life itself and the family and relationships and industry. And the more your life comports with truth, then the better off you’re going to be. Maybe not materially, but you’re going to be better off because you’re not working against the rain.

So Christians have this very rich history and heritage when it comes to encouraging, supporting, and championing quality excellence in education. And I know I kind of doubled up on the adjective there, but it’s there for a reason, right? We want people to be educated well, and we’ve done that for a very long time. It’s a little frustrating today because, you know, and it’s not just in our, you know, current, you know, decade or whatever that we’ve had conversations similar to this in Missouri, and we’re starting to finally see Ed Choice really taking root. But it’s been around for a while.

But the refrain is that, you know, Christians should stay out of the public arena. You shouldn’t bring your faith into the public arena. Well, that’s just nonsense. I don’t care what religious stripe you happen to be up to and including being an atheist. Everyone brings a religious understanding, perspective, worldview to bear when they’re thinking about public policy and certainly education. So we have this rich heritage. We should celebrate that and continue to live that out for the good of others around us, even those who disagree with us. You know, quality education helps everyone.

Nathan Sanders: Amen to that. Yeah, I was actually reading an article yesterday. It was unrelated to education, but essentially the author wrote, you know, the politics shouldn’t be the main focal point of your Christian life, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a part of it at all, right? Christians should absolutely engage in the political process and public policy that has to do with biblical values. Well, that’s a great, that’s a great segue into my next question, which is, I’ve been talking to a lot of pastors over the last year or two about starting churches because, you know, states, we’ve seen this in the last three or four years since these school choice programs have gone universal. It’s already taken off. It passed these programs and it does take, you can look at some data out of Florida, it does take a little bit, not extremely long, but it takes a couple of years for market to understand that, oh, this is an opportunity for education entrepreneurs and new schools and things like that to come up and become available for lots of students. It happens maybe a little bit quicker towards the urban areas of states, you know, the rural areas of states, it may take a little bit longer just because there’s less people and there’s a little bit less opportunity.

So I tell, you know, I talk to pastors all the time, I’m like, absolutely, you know, use your physical church building as a way to expand your ministry with school choice, whether that’s starting your own private school, obviously that takes a little more time and manpower and money for churches, but starting your own private school or even just allowing, you know, a homeschool co-op or a micro school to utilize your church building and somehow incorporating the church into that, even if it’s separate, having a Bible study or a devotional to start your day and the pastor being involved in some sort of way, so important and can go a long way in these ministries. So that’s something that I talk to pastors, specifically pastors who have the church building to do that. And so I lost my actual question. It was more of a thought for me, but that is something that, you know, I love to talk to pastors about. What advice would you give as a pastor and as a former lawmaker who’s worked really closely with the establishment and the expansion of these types of programs? What advice would you have for a pastor thinking about starting a school or at least lending, you know, part of their church to some type of education ministry?

Dr. Doug Richey: Well, it’s important to consider engaging to the degree that you possibly can. And certainly that goes all the way up to starting and opening up your own private school as a congregation, right? I think that the fundamental factor that pastors can prayerfully consider, we as pastors know the importance of evangelism and discipleship, right? They both go hand in hand. Well, discipleship, you know, involves more than teaching someone how to properly study the Bible, because if you’re dealing with people who have not been adequately educated or kids that are still way behind in terms of their ability to read, they’re way below their grade level reading capacities and things of that nature.

When you have an opportunity as a church to lean into the space of helping to educate children, you’re actually helping your discipleship mission be accomplished, right? To teach people more about the faith, about the work of Christ, the person of Christ, and the way that we are to live our lives differently because of Him. It does have a level of assumption built into that that we need people who can read, people who can read well and well enough to be able to look at a text, read it, and read it with comprehension well enough to understand what it’s saying and what that means in their practice, right?

So as churches have an opportunity to lean into that space, this really does work very well with their discipleship mission as a congregation. I would say that for me, the church I just stepped down from, my wife and I are hoping to be able to re-engage as active participating members once they find my replacement. But I was there for almost 20 years, and one of the things that we had begun to pray about, they had actually operated a Christian school prior to my arrival. It had closed about 20 years prior almost, and we were looking at trying to find ways to adequately support and encourage parents as they were desiring to prayerfully support their children’s education, wherever that may be.

I mean, for those families that choose to have their children enrolled in a public school, how can we come alongside of them and encourage them in that? Because it’s just difficult in today’s context. So what we ended up deciding to do, and we kicked this off a year prior to my departure nearly, we went ahead and went the route of working with the homeschool co-op that was going to be working to launch a micro school. And that micro school hybrid, it was going to be a hybrid scenario where they would be at home as homeschool students typically are, but then they would come together like three times a week, and then there would be coursework that other families could choose to enroll their children in, and yet they may not be there as frequently as others. So they were trying to work in a context where they would provide an educational option that pursued excellence, but was tailored in a way that had flexibility for families. I was so delighted to see that launch, and I pray that they continue to see success.

Nathan Sanders: And that’s one thing that, again, new and emerging models, especially in the world we live in now with technology and things like that, it’s so much easier for especially smaller churches or smaller ministries to cater to those different models. Micro schooling is super popular, I’m on the right of homeschooling, super popular. And so I think also being an advocate for this, being able to educate pastors and church leaders on, they may be stuck in 20 years ago where they think that private schooling is literally just classrooms in the church and hiring teachers and all this thing, this big operation that costs some money. It doesn’t necessarily have to look like that. Churches who are led to do that absolutely go for it.

But even serving 10 students, whether they’re in your community or your congregation or both, is so important. I want to thank you, Dr. Richey, for just what you’ve done the last 20 years in your ministry, what you did in the legislature. You’re a huge advocate for school choice and you had a lot to do with the establishment and the expansion of the scholars program, which is God willing, will hopefully continue to expand to every kid in the state of Missouri. So thank you for that and I want to thank you for your time today. I do want to leave you with the last word. We already talked a little bit about giving advice to churches and pastors on starting and expanding their ministry as it pertains to education, but what is your advice to pastors thinking about all of this stuff that we just talked about?

Dr. Doug Richey: I would say to fellow pastors that it is a good thing to consider and to pray about engaging this topic of education choice, education freedom, finding ways to encourage and come alongside of parents as they’re trying to do what’s right for their own children. There are many states like Missouri where we’re seeing tremendous movement in the education choice front with things like ESAs, which are wonderful tools to be able to provide additional support to families.

We all know that the financial and economic challenges that everyone’s experiencing right now and most of our families today are dual income families and certainly we have a large percentage of families even within the church that are single parent households where a single parent is actually working multiple jobs. So the idea of trying to give a child the best possible opportunity for a quality education sometimes does exist outside of a public school and that does bring cost. So these ESA programs are tremendous opportunities and pastors could encourage their congregations.

Listen, this is an opportunity for you to be a support and a ministry to these families. You can contribute to an ESA program and you get a tax credit for that. That’s private money going to a private entity that’s providing scholarships to families that are pursuing private education for their children and it’s just a wonderful vehicle. So I think it’s just, you know, pastors, we should be engaging in this space. We should be finding ways so that children can be exposed as much as possible to what is true and what is right and good and excellent and helps to set them up for a productive life as an adult that hopefully will bring blessing to future generations.

Nathan Sanders: Well, Dr. Richey, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate you. This is Sunday School Choice by EdChoice. I’m Nathan and we were joined by Dr. Richey today. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.