In this episode, we share key takeaways from our March 2021 wave of polling as reported on our EdChoice Public Opinion Tracker. For more from the full report, visit edchoice.morningconsultintelligence.com.
Mike McShane: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of EdChoice Chats. I’m Mike McShane, director of national research at EdChoice. I’m joined online today by the one and only Jennifer Wagner and the, well, I guess also one and only John Kristof. It’s great to be with both of you today. Since the three of us are on a podcast, diligent listeners will know we must be talking polling, and we actually have quite the treat today. For those of you that are unfamiliar, which I think there’s few of you, but for those few that are, remember, we at EdChoice in partnership with Morning Consult, poll a nationally representative sample of Americans every month, a nationally representative sample of teachers every quarter, and this is one of those four times a year when both of those polls are released at the same time.
So today we’re able to talk about our March polling numbers. So this was when our poll was in the field in March and then our kind of first quarter teacher numbers where our poll was in roughly at the same time. So it’s going to give us a nice opportunity to look at what the general population thinks about questions, the subsample of parents that were always super interested in understanding what they think, as well as teachers and I think highlight some places where those groups are in agreement and in some places where they disagree. Now, I think for us at EdChoice, obviously it has been a big couple of weeks. There has been huge movement in states across the country, in West Virginia, in Kentucky, and who knows by the time this podcast comes out, Lord willing, perhaps some other states have been moving education savings accounts bills.
In the past was being big energy around vouchers, around tax credits. But it seems like because of the pandemic and potentially other things, education savings accounts are kind of the story of the day. Well, we’ve been asking questions about education savings accounts. We’ve been talking to the general population, to the parents, to teachers. So Jen, might start with you here. What does our public polling tell us about education savings accounts? What do you make of that? What do you think people can do with that information?
Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, so I think it’s worth noting ESAs, as we call them for short, have been popular for a long time. They were popular before the pandemic. In our national research that we used to do, which was just on an annual basis, they have always been among the highest support of the four different types of school choice of the three that we track most commonly—which are tax-credit scholarships, vouchers and ESAs. So we started off in a really good spot because especially once you tell folks what an ESA is, that you can use it for flexible educational options. In some states, you can actually save any money that you don’t spend and put that toward higher education.
People really love that idea, far more so even than they love vouchers or tax credit scholarships, because again, you don’t just have to use it for private school tuition. I think that what we’ve seen over the last year in the pandemic has gone even higher off the charts most popular form of school choice because people now… Those are not just esoteric things that we talk about like, “Oh, you could get tutoring for your student,” or, “Oh, you could get some sort of therapeutic support for your student.” Now, in the midst of a pandemic, those needs are far more real. The ability to find service providers to fulfill those needs if you’re a parent is far more attainable.
We also, though, have parents who were like, “Wait a second. The state sets aside this amount of money for my kid. They haven’t been in a classroom in a year or they fallen behind because they’re not meant for online learning.” So what you see, I mean, we’ve got three out of four school parents in our most recent waves saying they support ESAs, and that number is even higher. We got 86% of charter school parents and 86% of private school parents who support the ESA concept. That’s off the charts. I think it’s also kind of interesting if you look at the breakdown for support for ESAs, you’ve got 68% of Democrats, 65% of Republicans. So it’s not a partisan issue. It breaks down across different demographic groups.
What I think we’re seeing in these numbers, and that’s borne out in your intro, Mike, is we’re seeing a lot of states taking up ESA policies, passing new ESA programs. What you’re looking at is the future of school choice. We already had programs in five states that are operational, six if you count in Nevada. I think lawmakers are quickly going to realize, “Oh, this is where we need to go with educational funding because this puts parents in the driver’s seat.”
Mike McShane: One of the things that strikes me too is just the low negatives, right? So, I mean, in the overall support that we see, I think. So, we do strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, strongly oppose. If you put all of the opposition together in the general population, it’s like 11%. I mean, so it’s not that you’ve got people that like it and people that don’t, and it’s one of the 60-40 issues or whatever. I mean, even among parents, I think the negatives are down at the 11% range. So, I mean, it’s just a really positive story in a time where we don’t have a ton of positive stories.
As you mentioned, I mean, as we break down the demographics, you don’t see these… I mean, so Democrats are 68%, Republicans 65%, Independents 65%, right? There’s not some big split on those either, which I think is great. Well now, look, as another thing that’s obviously… So, we’ve been talking a lot about education savings accounts because these bills that have been passing, but some other terms have been thrown around more, a lot of the innovation that has kind of emerged throughout the pandemic, whether that’s hybrid homeschooling, whether that’s pandemic pods. Now, interestingly, we’ve been asking both parents and teachers about both of those, about hybrid homeschooling, about pandemic pods. Would you like to participate in one? Are you trying to participate in one another’s? John, what do you see in the numbers there?
John Kristof: I see that a lot of overall interest in these kinds of alternative and hybrid forms of education. For a few months now, we’ve asked parents how interested they would be in doing some days of school instruction outside of the regular school environment. Pretty consistently we found well over, combined, well over 40% would be interested in long-term only doing two to four days of instruction at school. So there’s clearly, and we phrase this in a way of after the pandemic is over and there’s still that level of interest across parents. So, there’s an interest in thinking outside of the box long-term.
One of the ways that parents have thought outside of the box is by transitioning to microschools or learning pods, pandemic pods. I’ll just call them pods here, I suppose. We’ve talked about this on the podcast before, that usage of pods appears to have peaked mid-fall of this school year back in October, before dropping pretty significantly, and then maintaining at about 34% to 38%. That range of parents are either in a pod or they’re looking to get into a pod or are forming a pod. For the last several months, that appears to maybe be a long-term trend as well, taking the two together because we’re seeing that number of interest in participation in pods hold firm kind of regardless of patterns in schools reopening, of vaccine redistribution. There’s something about this, perhaps combined with the interest and flexibility that we just talked about, of parents doing this long-term.
One thing that we did find in—you mentioned in the intro that we also have our teacher survey completed this month as well—we found what I found to be pretty startlingly high numbers of teacher interest in doing instruction in pods. So one way that parents do learning pods is rather than facilitating instruction themselves is they will just pay a private teacher, a private instructor to facilitate the education among the however many kids themselves. So we asked teachers how interested they would be in that, and among all teachers, a majority of them were at least somewhat interested in that idea at, what is that, 59%.
It’s particularly high among charter school teachers where 87% said that they would be interested in teaching in that format, and private school teachers were at 72%, and district school teachers much lower, but still a majority at 54%. So, there is an interest in that only parents doing this long-term, but also teachers also participating and constructing an alternative formations. If I can extend this point a little bit further, one reason I bring in the teachers here is this point a little bit further. One reason I bring in the teachers here is because other questions that we ask in the surveys, I don’t know if we’ve touched on these specific questions in podcasts before, but we’ve essentially asked parents’ willingness to pay to participate in a pod. Because if you don’t have something like an education savings account. If you’re hiring an instructor, the parents are pulling resources together to hire personnel, to buy textbooks and things like that. They’re doing that out of their own dime if they don’t have something like an ESA that helps them out with that.
So, we ask parents what their willingness to pay would be to participate in a pod. And in March, that number was $524 per child per month. Now, for whatever that’s worth, that’s about $100 more per child per month than we saw just in January. So maybe even it not even if the percentage of parents interested in pods is rising, maybe the intensity of the desire to participate is rising being reflected in the price there. And the final kicker here that I see—
Mike McShane: I was just about to say, great stat. I got to tell you right there. That was a great stat.
John Kristof: Yeah, I think it’s really interesting. And the final kicker here for me is that we asked teachers how much they would demand from families in order for them to teach in a learning pod environment. Essentially, how much compensation would you need in order for it to be worth it? The average number that we got was of the teachers who said they were interested was $248 per child per month. Now, if you’re doing the math at home, that is less than half of the number that parents said that they would be willing to pay. So I put my economist hat on and I say, “There’s a market here waiting to be facilitated.”
Now there’s like a couple of caveats there where we don’t know how many kids, maybe teachers we’re expecting to teach. And maybe if they’re only serving five or six, maybe they’d want more compensation per child. But still, the stark difference there makes me think like, “There’s a market waiting to be facilitated” and something like an ESA, an idea that we’re seeing proliferate across the country now could facilitate something that people, both parents and teachers clearly seem to be interested in.
Mike McShane: Love it. Yeah. That space there will be an interesting one to look at, right? Between what people were willing to pay and what they would like to charge. Top rates, stats, bringing in there, John. Always appreciate it. This is why John, for those of you who don’t check out our blog enough, you should. Every time one of these comes out, maybe you all just like listening to hearing you the results. But John writes our summary blogs, so he digs deep into these things. They’re a great short summary if you don’t want to go through all 80 or 90 slides and you don’t want to just listen, John puts that great thing together. So thank you for bringing those stats in. That’s good.
So Jen, we’ve danced around it a bit here talking about the coronavirus. It’s obviously played a big role in a lot of these discussions, some of this innovation that’s taking place, the politics that’s going on in state capitols as we’re passing this legislation. And we’ve led a lot of previous podcasts talking about the coronavirus. Now, luckily, or perhaps not luckily, whatever the opposite of luck like “sciencely” because of interventions that we’ve done like vaccinations and others. Case counts appear to be going down. Hospitalization rates going down. By and large, kids starting to go back to school, but we have been asking these questions and it’s been interesting to see public opinion about safety, schools coming back.
And because we have this kind of serendipity here where we have both the general population, the parent numbers, as well as the teacher numbers, we were able to look. So in March, it looks like we’ve asked this question. Are you comfortable sending your children back to school this month? It was 56% of parents said that they were comfortable. That’s up six points from February. And those that are uncomfortable are only 40%, which as you might imagine is down six points from February.
But interestingly, amongst all teachers, 67% of teachers said that they were either somewhat or very comfortable. So 56% of parents, 67% of teachers. A. I don’t think that that’s actually kind of like the narrative out there, but I would be interested to know what do you make of that?
Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, I thought that was a very interesting finding. And you stole my intro and that like we’ve actually reworked this whole podcast order so that we are now talking about we’re leading in with the innovations and the policies that are coming out of the pandemic instead of all doom and gloom about how people are feeling. I think if you check out this slide deck on our website, you can see in the Parents Comfort slide that kind of looks like two waves of blue that we’re back up to actually a little bit higher than where we were last May. And I think you’ve got vaccines that they are happening. You’ve got people who are sending their kids back to school in person who are obviously talking to other parents and saying, “Hey, it’s okay. They’re doing a good job. The kids really needed this kind of an environment.”
So, I think that explains that 56%, that six-point jump from February of parents who are totally comfortable with their kids returning to school. I don’t know what to make of the teacher number. I think the fact that 67% of teachers and that’s all teachers, but if you break it down by district school, charter school or private school, you still got more teachers feeling more comfortable than parents with going back into that schooling environment. And I don’t know what to make of it other than perhaps it’s just that teachers know where they are at their best. They are willing to go back into the classroom.
Obviously, they have been prioritized of the vaccine list. So maybe we’re seeing a little bit of the effect of, “Okay, I’ve had my one or two shots and I’m ready to get back in the classroom,” but I think that’s a phenomenal number and I agree. It’s not one that you see. It kind of picked up in the mainstream media and since that’s actually my job is communicating. If anyone out there is listening and you happen to be a K-12 education reporter or someone who happened upon this and doesn’t cover K-12, this is a fascinating statistic.
Teachers are ready. They’re ready to get back. They’re ready to get in the classroom. And I think that’s probably only going to increase in the coming months. We’ll obviously check back in on this particular survey in three months’ time. And I think by the time this school year ends, I would expect to see this number even higher.
Mike McShane: Jen, I think that’s a great point and I think bringing up the vaccination point. Because one of the things that I thought was wild was… So we break down, as you said, we break it down by district teacher, charter teacher, private school teacher, but we also break it down by years of teaching. And if memory serves me correct as one might expect previously, older teachers were less comfortable coming back and younger teachers were more comfortable coming back. But wildly this time, teachers with 20+ years of experience, which is like the group that has the most experience in it were the most comfortable coming back.
And I was like, “That doesn’t make any sense,” but that point that you brought up sort of explains that if they have been vaccinated. So either because of their age, they were prioritized or because they were a teacher or some combination of the age and teacher, I think that could start to explain a lot of that. I hadn’t thought of that when I looked at those numbers. So we may be seeing a kind of vaccine dividend here. So folks who are interested in getting kids back to school, showing how tightly connected vaccination is to that. But John, you wanted to say something.
John Kristof: Yeah, just maybe two other things that we ask in our surveys that I think that kind of just bolster this point. I think this is relevant because one weird thing that we found last month with parents just as a bit of a background. Last month, I believe it was last month in February was the first time is since October I think that over 50% of parents said that they were at least somewhat comfortable with kids returning to school right now.
We ask another question where we emphasize essentially how safe do you think school is or when do you think schools will be safe? So less of a focus on comfort of kids being in in-person education and more focused on the safety side of things. And still even now still a month later with vaccines and things like that, well over 50% of parents say that they don’t think schools will be safe in in-person education until next school year. And the number for teachers it’s roughly 50/50, it’s 43% and 48% teachers saying that schools will be safe this year versus next year.
So, there’s a little bit of a discrepancy as far as clearly there are some teachers who think that it is worth going back to school now despite safety concerns. Some parents who think that it’s worth going back to school now despite safety concerns, but there’s a lot fewer teachers who are concerned about the safety element of it than parents is my point there. And then the one other thing to bring up. We’ve asked vaccination questions for some time now. I don’t have the number right here and I forget what slide number it is in the deck, but we also ask teachers and parents number it is in the deck, but we also ask teachers and parents how willing they would be to get a vaccine and what their opinions of kids getting vaccinated as well. And teachers overall are just significantly more positive toward, not only getting vaccinated but some more strict requirements or more intense recommendations around getting vaccinated as well. So that vaccine positivity maybe could play into the feeling of safety and their expectations of safety.
Mike McShane: Sure. So talking positivity here, another set of questions that we’ve asked is, opinions of institutions responding to the coronavirus. So again, talking about all adults, teachers school parents, we’ve asked about the Biden administration, your state’s governor, state public health officials, local teachers unions, national teachers unions and local school boards. So generally speaking, all adults, probably the most pessimistic or have the most negative feeling. School parents and school teachers are actually quite close to one another in a lot of their views, they tend to be more positive. But Jen, as you look at those three groups, parents, teachers, the general population and what they’re seeing their opinions of the institutions of their life and of education, what do you see there?
Jennifer Wagner: I agree with you, the generic responses from all Americans are not good. So if you’re out there and you’re listening and you happen to be a state public health official or a local school board member, you’re about 50/50, you’re not really knocking it out of the park. So that was interesting that there was notably more pessimism among all folks when compared to teachers and parents. It’s not a huge surprise in both of those groups that we see more faith in teachers unions, local school boards. Because obviously those two groups are very connected to schooling, whether they work there or they send their kids there. And I think that tracks with what we see elsewhere in this slide deck of, who do people trust most to make good decisions about education and then overwhelmingly that comes back as parents and teachers.
I think that the biggest thing that I take away from this, is that parents and teachers seem to be just more generally optimistic. They seem to be placing their trust and approval in the institutions that they think are most closely linked to K-12 education. And I think that’s indicative of the closeness that they feel to those institutions and probably also the level of information they’ve received from them. I hear from my school all the time, obviously, I’m in Indiana, our governor does briefings all the time. Our county health official does briefings all the time. So, I would guess that correlates with where you receive the information from, maybe not necessarily whether you like it. But that you’re getting that information and that you feel that itch is being scratched so to speak.
John Kristof: I think it’s interesting too, that’s worth pointing out, within this school, parents and teachers are generally more positive. My eyes honed in onto the teachers unions approval rating numbers. And in part, because there’s a lot of different media narratives out there that put parents and unions in opposition to each other, teachers versus parents and things like that. Not universally, but enough that’s where my eyes were drawn here. And the orderings are a bit different as far as how parents and teachers rank the different public institutions. But boy, I think it’s worth noting that the total approval rating for local teachers unions are exactly the same between teachers and parents and national teachers unions is almost exactly the same between teachers and parents, it’s off by one percentage point. So, maybe just goes to show you that the teacher’s unions are an institution that are an entity of their own. So when you ask teachers and you ask parents, there’s a lot more unity envisioned perhaps than we might otherwise assume.
Mike McShane: Well, in recent weeks though, it’s receding a bit into the past. A third round of Corona virus relief was passed the first of the Biden administration. And now all told, I think close to $200 billion across the three CARES Act one and two, and this most recent version have been allocated for K-12 schools. And so we asked a question, this was new to our March survey and obviously new to our teacher survey as well. We asked the question, based on what you know about the federal government’s COVID pandemic relief funds for K-12 education, do you believe that amount is too high, too low or about right? And then we, along with some other folks did it back of the envelope calculation to figure out roughly how much schools are getting per kid and then like we’ve done in the past with teacher salaries, we do it with school spending. We do an experiment where we give the actual amounts.
We ask people in general what they think about it and then we give the specific amount. Now, the interesting thing, at least the way I read these, is that generally speaking, when we talk about school spending and we say, how much should schools spend? People tend to say that they should spend more until we tell them how much schools actually spend. And then oftentimes they say, “No, that’s all right.” Or maybe they should spend less. Same thing, we should pay teachers more. We tell them how much teachers actually make, they pay less. This is an example of the opposite of that. Where, when we said, just in general to folks, when you’ve heard about it, what do you think? Folks were more likely to say that it was too low when they got the information? So, Jen, I mean, what do you make of this? Where, it’s this weird reversal in this case, folks were saying, “No, man, keep that money flowing.”
Jennifer Wagner: Yeah. I was struck by that as well, because from all of our polling to your point, people go, “I think, on average we fund our students, our per pupil spending at $4,000.” And then we tell them like, “Hey, on average it’s around $12,000. And in your state could be much higher than that.” And some states obviously it’s much lower but when they hear that number, they’re like, “I had no idea.” And they’re like, “I think we may be okay, or may be even spending too much.” Same with teacher pay. But in this instance, you’ve got, all adults went from 28% saying that it was too low. The federal spending was too low per student. And then when they were told that $3,700 average number that jumped up to 40% and the same with teachers. 37% thought the spending was too low when they had no information, jumps up nine points to 46% when they do have that information. Which I don’t quite know what to make of it.
Other than that, I think we’ve all been under a lot of duress. And during the pandemic, I think people are getting stimulus checks so that they’re like, “All right. Well, I’ve gotten $1,200 and $1,200.” Maybe they’re doing that in their head and they’re thinking, “Well, heck if that’s what I got. $3,700, doesn’t sound like that much money to help my student, who’s been stuck on Zoom calls for the last nine months, get back into the routine.” So I think this probably has more to just do with our visualization of money. I was explaining to my son the other day, why they price things at $1.99 instead of $2 and the psychology of that. And I have a feeling that was at play here, is that $3,700 just doesn’t sound like that much money when you put the psychological calculation of what has happened to our students and you ascribe it to that number. So I’m interested in John’s thoughts but my thought is that we’d just instinctively go, “Well, that doesn’t quite seem like enough.”
John Kristof: It is a really interesting result and I guess, for a bit of context, because I find this context helpful without making any recommendations that I’m not qualified to make. I know that the CDC came out with an incredibly thorough and if you are a nerd who likes spreadsheets like me, a very interesting report on their estimated costs for essentially COVID safety measures. This was released in December, if you want to Google it yourself, it’s called estimated resource costs for implementation of CDC’s recommended COVID-19 mitigation strategies.
Mike McShane: A page Turner.
John Kristof: Absolutely. And they go in painstaking detail as to these are materials that you need, how different practices might impact costs, here and here. And then they, state-by-state, go by these are the sizes of the teaching labor force. These are how many students are being served, so on and so forth. And they do the math state by state as to how much more public schools in a state would need to have in order to do the school safety measures properly. And consistently these numbers, I’ll just do Indiana, where I live, the number is half a percent to 4.5%. And that is pretty representative of what all the other 50 states are. Now we know that the average total per student spending across the country average is over $12,000 per student.
So given that and our back of the envelope calculation, that’s per student schools are getting an extra $3,700. Don’t know the exact percentage off of my head, but that’s essentially an extra 25%. So even the highest estimated cost of the COVID safety measures needed for schools, what schools have actually gotten is several times that. And despite that, even teachers who perhaps maybe are closer than the general population and school parents and their relationship with administration may differ, but are closer to what costs would be, even they think that the $3,700 on average is not enough. So like Jen, I think there’s a big presentation question here as to, yeah, what is our perception of how much staying safe is?
And COVID is a monumental issue, obviously it’s one of the issues that will define this generation, this decade of kids coming up and things like that. And maybe $3,700 doesn’t feel like enough to cover something that is so monumental. So I don’t have any clear answers. I just think that that context is important and… Yeah, because to me anyway, context adds a lot of value here and context that you’re not going to get without diving into this page-turner of a PDF from the CDC. So—
Mike McShane: Yeah. And look, and I think you’ve got some baseline level too of that most of these bills, I don’t have the numbers off the top of my head, but have been popular, like most of these Coronavirus relief packages. So it may be that sort of irrespective of whatever that number is, we’re saying, “Was this the right amount or should we do more?” Whatever. It’s sort of part and parcel of broader things. I’d say, “No, we’ve been spending about the right amount of money. This is across the economy. It’s stuff that we need to do.” And again, this is the point where I think we say it at least once in every podcast. And what’s actually kind of fun about doing this versus a lot of the other stuff that we have to do is we’re just saying what people think. Maybe they’re right, maybe they’re wrong. I don’t know. Maybe this is wise, maybe this is unwise, but we are simply reporting what people think.
Well, I do want to bring up one last bit here. We were just speaking, I think yesterday, I don’t know exactly when the podcast is going to come out. Our great new teen survey that came out where we asked teenagers how they feel they’ve been fairing during the Coronavirus, what some of their thoughts are. And so I think it’ll be nice to maybe end this podcast looking at talking to parents and teachers about their question about how they think that children have been fairing. So we’ve been asking questions throughout our surveying, looking at academic learning, emotional development, and social development. Asking both teachers and students, “How do you feel your children or your students are progressing this year?” So I’d be interested, Jen, as you look at this, like comparing teachers to parents, we also break it down based on charter schools, private schools, district schools. Do you see any trends or patterns in there?
Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, Mike, so I actually was just toggling between these two slides on my screen. And again, like the question about Coronavirus relief funding, the drop between how parents feel things are going for their kids and how teachers feel like they’re going is pretty remarkable here. And you can visually see it. If you switch between the two slides, it’s like one of those little audio bars that goes up and down. And you’re like, “Wow, that dropped a lot.” Parents, they’re not feeling great across the board. 36% are positive about academic learning, 31% on emotional development, 30% on social development. So by no means are parents really submitting rave reviews. Now that does break down a little bit if you look at the schooling type designation. Especially in academic learning, you see a clear advantage among homeschooling and private school parents who feel like academic learning is going very well.
You consistently see private school and homeschooling parents give higher marks across the board than district school parents, but still 36%, 31% overall feeling good about those three buckets of issues. Teachers, the overall teacher rating their student’s progress in academic learning as positive drops down to 20%. And that’s on average of all teachers. Only 17% of all teachers feel like things are going very well for emotional development, 16% for social development. And honestly, the only standout among those three buckets is charter school teachers who feel like 37% of them feel like academic learning is going very well for their students. And I don’t, again, don’t have any correlation to what we’ve already talked about other than obviously teachers are very eager to get back to the classroom more so than parents and we’ve talked about that. And they don’t think things are going all that well in whatever learning format they are currently teaching in. So, again, as a parent, I don’t know what to make of that disconnect.
I don’t know if some of it maybe is just teacher fatigue. We did ask elsewhere in the quarterly teacher survey about whether teachers would be net promoters of their profession. We found a pretty significant portion of teachers over the age of 55 have thought about retiring or leaving after the pandemic, leaving their profession. So, it’s hard to say if this is an analysis of how students are actually doing or is it reflective of the fact that teachers, they’re being asked to do a lot right now. They’re again eager to get back in the classroom.
And there’s also perhaps, and I say this from a parent’s perspective, a little bit of wishful thinking. Like I want to be positive about my child’s progress in these three areas over the past year, because I really don’t have any other alternative. I can sit here and lament thing is, but I didn’t have a lot of opportunity to affect change during the pandemic. So I really, again, can’t conclusively say what this means, but there is a significant drop from what parents think about how their kids are doing and what teachers are seeing from student progress.
Mike McShane: Well, look, friends, we could keep talking about this for hours, but I think we may just have to leave it there for today. Again, everyone, please make sure to check out John’s blog post that summarizes all of this. Head to our website, edchoice.morningconcultintelligence.com for all of this. You can go to www.edchoice.org for all of the other great stuff that we do. But these particular bits are on the Morning Consult site there. Jen, John, great chatting with you as always. I look forward to talking to you again and look forward to chatting with everyone listening on our next episode of EdChoice Chats.