Ep. 269: Monthly Tracker – August 2021

September 16, 2021

In this episode, we share key takeaways from our August 2021 wave of polling as reported on our EdChoice Public Opinion Tracker.

Mike McShane: Well, hello and welcome back to another edition of EdChoice Chats. This is Mike McShane, Director of National Research at EdChoice and you are listening to our monthly installment of our tracker podcast. For those of you who may not know, we have a partnership with Morning Consult, the polling firm, and we poll a nationally representative sample of Americans every month. The poll we’re talking about today was in the field, as they say, in the biz from August 6th through the 18th of 2021. And obviously, it’s a really interesting time to poll people because for most places across the country, this is back to school time. So maybe folks had their children had just started school, or they would be starting that week or the week after. And I think we found some really, really interesting stuff to have the backdrop of increasing coronavirus cases, students going back to school, an interesting kind of collision of things that are happening and to sort out that collision, I have some metaphor of the crime scene investigators.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that what happened or the people who show up afterwards and say, “The car was going 30 miles an hour.” I never figured out how they do that. Engineers, magicians basically, but the magicians we have today, the magic man, John Kristof and the magic lady, I don’t know, the fellow magician, Jennifer Wagner. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, regular listeners have heard these familiar voices before.

Like I said, we have some really interesting stuff this month, so I’m excited to pick their brains on what they saw.

So Jen, I’ll probably start with you because we’ve been asking this question since the beginning of the pandemic. This is a really basic question to people that has nothing to do with education, but just how disruptive has the coronavirus been to you? And we asked people like to your community, to your family or household routine and to your personal routine. And generally speaking from a peak in April of 2020, we’ve seen a general decline. There was a little bit of a blip kind of over the winter and February of 2021. We’ve seen basically a decline, but this last month in August, we actually saw an uptick. And wondering if maybe you had some thoughts about what you think is going on there.

Jennifer Wagner: Yeah. I mean, obviously, we are crime scene experts, magicians, whatever metaphor you want to use here. So we don’t know the answer to the why, which is the fun part of polling is that we get to kind of interpret the results and think about what’s going on in the broader world and in this case in the United States. And I think that what we’re seeing here is reflective of the Delta variant and the fact that you’ve got some places in the country that are not going into full shutdown mode, but are certainly pulling back a little bit because they’re seeing their hospital beds fill up and they’re not seeing their vaccine rates go up at a sizeable clip as we might hope they would. So I think you’ve got people who are basically just being honest and saying, “Yeah, this is starting to be a little bit more disruptive.”

I think it’s definitely worth noting though that obviously the high water mark for this back in March or April of last year was half or more than half of people saying that COVID-19 has been very disruptive in their community and roundabout a third of folks saying it’s been very disruptive for their family or household routine and their personal routine that is way down to about one third of people saying very disruptive in their community. And then one out of five, roughly, or maybe a tick over one out of five saying that COVID is very disruptive to their family or household routine or their personal routine. So obviously the trend line is going in a good direction if you think it is good to not be disrupted as I do.

Mike McShane: I think we can agree on that one.

Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, I think we can. So it’s an improvement, but again, I thin you definitely see this reflected in the news and then just talking to folks that there’s a little bit more trepidation out there and also a little bit more disruption based on what states or local communities are doing to respond to Delta.

Mike McShane: And one of the things obviously that I think changes those numbers, and I think that’s a really good point that you brought up that there’s the levels and there’s the changes. So while there was an uptick, it’s still down from… so we haven’t even reached back to the winter of 2020-2021 levels and Lord willing, we will not again, but obviously the big difference between then and now is vaccinations. But John, it’s really interesting. So we’ve been tracking for months now asking this question, when a vaccine is approved will you agree to be vaccinated? And one of the things that I think generally an encouraging finding that we’ve had over the course of last few months is upticks every month, more and more people saying that they want to get vaccinated, more and more people wanting to get vaccinated.

But one of the things that we found this month is it basically that number held steady. That there were really no shifts and even when we break it down to various demographic groups as we’ve done before, racial and ethnic groups, income, politics, whatever, geography, there’s really nothing. There’s just really not a lot of movement there where it seems like vaccine opinions are baked in at this point. Is that how you see it? And it seems to me that this is the sort of level that we’re holding at that opens up a whole bunch of issues that could conceivably be affecting our schools and our society over the course of the next few months.

John Kristof: Yeah. Over the last few months, we have seen the rate at which the numbers increase with people being more willing to get a vaccine when available, the increases have been slow and this month, essentially everything is within what you would consider the margin of error.

So cases rise, but it almost feels like we’ve hit some kind of saturation point of interest in the vaccines. And I know that is not completely the case when you look at just the number of vaccine doses administered every day. The latest CDC numbers that I’ve been able to find for September… what is this, the sixth? So yesterday at time of recording, supposedly we administered another 954,000 vaccine doses. So clearly that there are some people who have had access to vaccines for a while who were not interested in having vaccines that are now getting vaccines for whatever reason. But essentially, the numbers aren’t increasing fast enough, shall we say, for it to make a meaningful difference in how people view this new rise of COVID cases in their community. So we’ll see what happens in the long-term. I have seen from colleagues that I have in Arkansas specifically, that where we kind of saw a Delta spread early on, one of the earlier Delta spreads in the United States, you saw a fairly sizeable uptick.

Again, it’s all relative, but a fairly sizeable uptick after Delta started taking off. So there are some people for whom stuff just needs to hit really close to home before they will try something for them is different or new or scary, like maybe this vaccine. And unfortunately, maybe this was that for some people and maybe they’re part of the 954,000 doses. So it’ll be interesting to keep track of cases and the Delta spread and how that impacts people’s vaccine upticks. There’s debate over whether we’ve had a Delta peak already. Again, that’s an empirical question that we’ll see in the future. But it’ll be interesting to see if doses continue to slowly rise as this new bit of evidence about the impact of COVID through the Delta spread.

Mike McShane: Well, according to our demographic breakdowns, the group least likely to get vaccinated based on all of them is Gen Z.

So John, I’d like to say, I’m holding you personally accountable for your generation decisions. Us millennials, as Jen and I can look down on you from our perch as millennials, we’re not much better. Gen Z was 53%, millennials is 59%. If you compare that to Gen X is 61% and boomers are 78%. So perhaps with age comes wisdom and you guys are going to figure this out. But Jen, so here’s the big number broadcasting this one out there. I think the biggest, most shocking, most interesting number to come out of this month’s poll and I want to get your opinion on this. Obviously, someone who’s sending kids back to school, that the percentage of people saying that they are comfortable with their children in school. So the question is phrased based on what you’ve seen, read or heard about the coronavirus. So far how comfortable are you with your children returning to school right now?

The total comfortable, so those who are somewhat or very comfortable is down 15 points from July. That’s down to only 57%. And the total uncomfortable is up 11 points from July up to 37%. And generally speaking, we have not seen these numbers move more than a couple percentage points from month to month. So seeing a 15 percentage point drop just is big. In all of the months that we’ve been doing this podcast and all the months we’ve been looking at is we rarely if ever have seen numbers change so abruptly so quickly. So what do you see happening there?

Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, I think the other thing worth noting too, is that we’ve seen them gradually tick up by two or three or four percent in terms of comfortability over the last three or four months. I’m sure there are those out there who would say, “Oh, well your poll must be wrong. And this is such an abrupt drop off. Try again next month.” But for me, the answer is pretty clear. Again, pure prognostication, but clear from my own experiences and clear from the headlines that we’re seeing out of schools across the country is that back when we asked this in July, most folks were not back in school. It was a hypothetical question. Now, when we ask it in August, I realize there was still some school districts that go back after Labor Day or close to Labor Day, but a lot of them go back in late July, early to mid August and I think whatever analogy you want to use, the rubber hit the road, and parents probably didn’t feel as comfortable once they saw their kids going back.

I think there’s probably a lot of uncertainty and chaos that’s been created with the debate around masks and mask mandates. It would be really interesting to probe this deeper and find out are you uncomfortable sending your kid back to school because they do have to wear a mask, or because they don’t have to wear a mask, or because for a vast majority of kids, certainly elementary school and some in middle school who are under the age of 12, getting a vaccine isn’t even an option? So did you realize all of a sudden as your kid walked through those double doors that, “Oh, there’s a lot more risk there than I thought?” Even if it’s just perceived risk, because we are seeing a lot of stories, back to your point about chastising Gen Z, and we, elder millennials are not much better. But actually Mike, you’re not an elder millennial, I’m an elder millennial, but we see all these headlines now of these teenagers in the hospital and these people who have no pre-existing conditions getting COVID and getting some very serious side effects from that.

Again, whether or not that something that I think is going to happen to me, it certainly does create an atmosphere of uncomfortability, to put it in the terms of this question that we ask. And I think that’s what we seeing in this massive drop in this number from July to August.

Mike McShane: One of the things that surprised me and this may be my monthly editorializing, I find myself doing this most of the time we’re just analyzing here, but occasionally I have to throw in my own editorializing. One of the things that has surprised me, given that we’re now in school year three of the coronavirus. We had the spring of one year, a complete school year, and now we’re into a third one. I’m still just sort of blown away by the number of things that… and granted, this is anecdotal, this is people reaching out to me, texting, calling saying things on social media, of the seeming inability for schools, school districts, and others to articulate, develop processes for dealing with the coronavirus in their schools. Like quarantining, are we quarantining an entire grade or just the kids who sit around?

You would think that at some point this would have been worked out. There have been months and months and school years to figure out some procedures around this. And I don’t doubt when I see parents looking out and saying, “Oh my goodness, my child just has to quarantine,” or, “They’re out of school for seven days,” or whatever, feeling very uncomfortable about that and not understanding, “Oh my goodness, my child was a close contact. What does that mean? Oh, there’s a student in my child’s class who tested positive, but they’re saying my child should stay in school. Should they, should they not?” Just all of this chaos that’s still happening around this is in some ways just kind of shocking to me that these types of things have not been codified and communicated in a better way.

But nevertheless, editorializing aside, I can understand where parents are coming from and definitely feeling less comfortable. But John, I think you want to jump in on something there.

John Kristof: Yeah. I think that’s a good point and I can speak anecdotally as well to carry on from your point first. My wife being an elementary school teacher and some frustrations that she has with how few contingency plans, shall we say, that have been developed over time. Some situations are easier to figure out than others. If both parents are vaccinated and they are not showing symptoms, but they had an exposure does child need to quarantine? Something like that. That’s a fairly straightforward thing. What happens when parents are separated? Mom is vaccinated child spends weekend with dad, dad tests positive, mom sends kid to school the following week.

What do you do with that child’s classroom while you wait for your COVID response? People who maybe don’t have a lot of close experience with separated parents might not think of that contingency plan, but that’s something you are absolutely going to see when you have a school with several hundred kids. And the schools have just not been entirely prepared in a lot of situations. If you know schools who have done it well, or if you’re a teacher and you think your school has done it well, hit us up. I would love to hear how they’ve done it. I will happily, I will blog that.

Absolutely. I want to hear how things have gone. Well, I want to know what that looks like. Sorry, Jen. Go ahead.

Jennifer Wagner: Well, no, I can honestly say it too. I am a separated parent and we have spent hundreds of dollars going through a parenting coordinator trying to figure out the protocol for what happens. And this is more so during the height of the pandemic. But yeah, it’s awful. And then you have to tell the school like, “Okay, here’s what happened,” and notifying the other parent. Anyway, yes, all these things that people don’t consider and all these things that make teacher’s lives so much more difficult. I know Mike you’re a former teacher, props to your wife for getting through it all. But yeah, all of this stuff gets even more complicated when you’re dealing with different family dynamics.

John Kristof: I just want to mention real quick before we move on from the slide because this might be an example, if I can share an example of updating your beliefs based on new information. But what I kind of had a process with this chart here was I remember seeing all sorts of studies and, again, I’m not an epidemiologist. I read data and I think about it. We saw so much research about how COVID does not spread very much at schools based on evidence that we had. There were studies that were quickly done that tried to analyze that as best as possible. And science is something that always continually develops. So we’re trying to figure out the broader scientific community, if you will, or trying to figure out why COVID spread among kids has been so much higher this year than it seemed to have been last year.

Again, kids below 12 are the only group right now that can’t be vaccinated in the United States. And I just want to call out, I know that one theory about this is simply that kids have a lot more opportunity to be exposed both in school and out of school to the coronavirus than they were last year. Last year a lot of daycares, for example, were still closed. Last year a lot of extracurricular activities were closed off to kids. A lot more schools had anti-covid policies than they may be do this year in particular. And maybe what we’re finding is, is when some of the COVID restrictions that we had went by the wayside because COVID is over in a lot of our minds and I caught my cautious optimism was on that boat a little bit.

As those things went to the wayside, we find that kids can carry COVID just as much as the rest of us, if you will. So it’s a working theory that we’re trying to figure out, but we are seeing that spread can happen. I think parents have seen evidence of that already in schools or at least I’ve certainly seen and heard about it in communities near me.

Mike McShane: So one of the things to try and combat that very thing are masks. Right? So obviously as Jen alluded to, if you been following the news at all, even casual observers have probably seen there’s been a little bit of controversy around mask mandates or lack of mask mandates decisions. So we asked some mask questions this month. So Jen, I want to sort of throw two questions to you because I think the data that came out of this are really interesting.

So we made this comparison about… we ask these two questions, “Okay, now that an FDA approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19 is available, do you think it should be mandatory or encouraged for the following groups?” And we said, “Teachers, students and employees working in schools, older students, younger students.” And we also asked the question, “Do you think masking should be mandatory or encouraged for those same groups.” And on our website, as I direct everyone at edchoice.morningconsult.com, you can look at the slides where they put together this really cool thing, where for each of these groups, we can compare masks and vaccine.

So what percentage of respondents said that vaccine should be mandatory for them, encourage for them, or neither encourage nor mandatory and the same thing for masks. And at least when I look at these numbers, there’s an incredible amount of similarity. So just looking at teachers, for example. Masks, 50% of respondents think that it should be mandatory for teachers to wear masks. 27% think it should be encouraged. And obviously the rest say, neither encourage nor mandatory. For vaccines, it’s 48 and 30. So 50 and 27, 40 and 30. Very similar. And if you go down the line, they’re all quite similar to one another, which maybe I shouldn’t have been surprised by that. Maybe I thought there might be a little bit more divergence, but when you look at those numbers, what are you seeing?

Jennifer Wagner: No, I see the same thing that you do. Maybe I think about this differently than… obviously I do than most people. To me, there’s a huge difference in terms of making a vaccine mandatory, which is something that goes into your arm and you may or may not have side effects from or masks, which they sell for two bucks for 50 on Amazon and it’s a relatively low lift to put that mask on and walk into a building. So this is very striking. And to me, it’s throughout all of the demographic groups until really you get down to students, and obviously students ages 5-11 are not eligible for vaccines at the moment. But even students aged 12 and over, you’ve got fewer people who are thinking of vaccines need to be mandatory.

But yeah, it’s very surprising. I think the other thing though, as easy to set up this conversation is that you might think if you flip on the evening news or read any sort of major daily publication across the country, that the percentage of people in that neither encouraged nor mandatory category is much higher than one out of five. It may be that the media are not accurately representing the fact that a large portion of Americans and parents are actually completely fine with a mandate or a little nudge in the positive direction toward doing these two things. So I’m not shocked. I’m a former journalist.

I know that if it bleeds, it leads and people screaming at school boards and getting escorted out by security makes for a really great soundbite. But I was somewhat pleasantly surprised to see that a large majority are either in the mandatory or optional encouraged category here so that we can maybe, hopefully as John alluded to earlier, get past COVID, get to herd immunity so that I can go out and do cool things again and not have to worry about my health or more importantly other people’s health.

So anyway, I’d take this as a positive sign.

Mike McShane: Yeah. So it’s interesting because when I look at this, I see, so the mask number, for example, a teacher’s it’s 50% mandatory, for children ages 12 and older it’s 47%. And when I look at that, I think if I’m trying to make a recipe for social strife, it is to make, when we look at something that we want to make mandatory to have 50% of people support it. So you have 50% of people supporting, it means that 50% of people don’t. And it’s just like, this is not going to go well. It’s like if it’s 70-30, then you have a clear enough majority, whatever. So I don’t know, John, have you seen the same thing there, but when I look at these numbers, I’m just like, “Oh boy. This means that we’re going to…” and I should say actually in the next slide that’s on there, which I think is an interesting one.

We asked this question of who should have the authority to determine whether or not masking is required in public school buildings. And we say the state health department, the local school district, local health department. The winner was the state health department with 35% of adults saying that. And the loser was national elected officials, probably shouldn’t have been surprised by that one and only 13%. But at least when I look at those numbers, it’s only 35%. So I take the first numbers there where it’s like a 50-50 split on mandatory. I look where there doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus about who should come to this decision. And I think, “This is just like a powder keg waiting to explode.” I don’t know, am I too pessimistic, John? Do you see something similar?

John Kristof: Well, I might disagree with you a little bit as to the social strife point.

And I only say that because clearly there is social strife around this. So there is some evidence to your point, but if 50% of people support mask mandates for teachers, 50% don’t, but the percentage that actively say it should not be either encouraged nor mandatory is 23%. So less than half of the total that say it should be mandatory. And everyone else in between the encouraged but not mandatory, you could be a few different kinds of people. You can be the kind of person who really believes in masks. You asked us about vaccines, you could really believe in vaccines, but you just really have this principle against mandating people do certain things to do their job. You can be that person. You can also be the kind of person who just doesn’t really know or care, or you just know masks are the things people are doing and you just generally know that things work and you just live a life where there are more important things for you to worry about than what is happening in school because you don’t have kids or whatever.

So everyone else is in this, “I’m not really going to fight very hard for one thing or the other.” So I don’t know, but all you really need is, to your point, a few people with passion, people with the ability to fight for what they believe in, even if they are in the 20% or something like that, to create some conflict out of that issue. But I think it’s also worth noting if you are someone who disagrees with the 20%, if you’re someone who maybe is more uncomfortable with your children returning to the classroom because of what your school is doing or not doing with mask mandates or vaccine mandates or language around it, this is some suggestion that there are some people on your side that maybe just aren’t mobilized if that’s the right word.

Mike McShane: Yeah. Well, let’s talk about turning down the heat here. So Jen, we’ve asked this question again. Do you think schools should offer only one approach to educating K-12 students in the fall to provide multiple learning options? Again, it seems to me, why do we have these fights over mask vaccines? Because there’s just one way of going. And it seems to me and I didn’t check the numbers, but it seems like it’s an increase this month. So we had 73% of respondents say that there should be more than one learning option. Only 15% say that schools should offer one approach. So I hope that this was going to be something that schools pursue because it can help maybe work some of these things out. So if you’re not comfortable with the mask policy, or the quarantining policy, or you don’t trust your kids’ classmates parents to behave responsibly or whatever, you might have some other options here. And we’ve done some demographic breakdowns and stuff but when you look at that sort of pie chart, what do you make of it?

Jennifer Wagner: Yeah, I think we’ve seen this hold pretty steady if not increase all throughout the time we’ve asked this question and I can’t remember which month we first added this, if it was already in there from the outset back in March, but I think it’s really interesting when you couple this finding, you got 73% of parents wanting multiple options with not to jump ahead a little bit, but the estimated school type attendance for 2021-22 school year has 77% of kids in district schools, which is less than it is historically when we don’t have a global pandemic going on, but still pretty darn high. And what I have to wonder as we look at this long-term because as it turns out, school choice does not happen overnight or if it does, it still takes a long, long time for parents to figure out what their options are and maybe explore something other than their geographically assigned school.

But to me, if got 73% of parents saying, “I want multiple options” and then you’ve got 77% saying, “I’m going to send my kid back to a district school.” Well, something’s got to give. So those district schools, I hope are sitting up paying attention to these results and going, “Oh, okay. So maybe this whole red brick schoolhouse mythology is finally ready to break open.” And I think we’re seeing this in pockets across the country. Schools that previously did not offer any online learning options or did not offer a one or two days hybrid option will now either be forced to, because of that whole supply and demand thing or that we will see that number of estimated school type attendance go down for district schools as people continue to homeschool, or explore homeschooling, or that there are private and charter schools that are willing to shake things up a little bit and offer different environments in different days of the week for meeting what parents are asking for.

So again, I know we’ve talked about this throughout the pandemic, but we’re just now, at least in my opinion, on the precipice of seeing how the last 18 months are going to shape the next 18 months, 18 years in terms of schooling, as we used to know it and schooling as we’ve been forced to visualize it of the last year and a half.

Mike McShane: So I want to call a brief audible here because we kind of need to bring this thing in for a landing. I had two more things that I wanted to talk about and I realized now the way that I had prepped this, we were probably going to end on kind of a bummer. And there’s enough bad stuff happening in the world that we’re not going to end on that.

This bummer thing that I was going to end on just, we don’t have to belabor the point, but one of the things I think an interesting thing that we found in this month’s results was the right direction, wrong track, right track, wrong track question that we’ve asked both the general population and parents. We’ve seen throughout the course of the summer, a pretty steady decline. So it seems like as parents are coming back to school, as back to school things are happening and again, it’s tough to against this backdrop of the nightly news covering, contentious school board meetings and others, but it seems to me, the percentage of people who think things are going in the right direction, whether that’s local, state, national is on their way down.

But I don’t want to end on that because that’s a bummer and we’ve talked about enough heavy stuff here. I think the last question which I may send over to John Kristof here, really is just, I’m just going to sort of nakedly promote my book. We’ve been asking this question about, and this sort of ties into what Jen was talking about of trying to find solutions or what hybrid learning might look like as a result of the coronavirus pandemic or others. But we’ve been asking questions about alternative school schedules, whether folks might want to try and go part-time.

And this month we did actually see an uptick in some places, both in parents saying that they would ideally they would like to have their child educated entirely at home, or they’d like to see it a couple days a week. And this is broken down by district school parents and private school parents. But John, and I know in the great blog posts and we don’t do enough on this podcast promoting your blog post. So I’m going to do that now. Every month when this comes out, not only do we do this podcast, but John puts together a really helpful informative blog post, lots of charts and some texts where he breaks a lot of this stuff down and it’s really useful and easily shareable. But I remember you had some good insights in that. So I’m going to give you the last word on our substantive stuff.

But when you look at these charts of part-time enrollment, what do you see?

John Kristof: I see a continuation of kind of what Jen was mentioning just a few minutes ago. For the record, jumping back, parents who say that they want multiple learning options in the fall did increase this month compared to last point by six points, which for this question is actually very substantial. So the sense of wanting multiple learning options right now as the school year is kind of getting underway and we’re seeing how COVID is interacting with schools and contentious school board hearings and all of that. There is more of a desire for alternative learning options and one kind of alternative learning option that parents might think about is lessening the amount of time that children are doing their schooling outside of the home, usually we think of that as a physical school building and doing it more at home.

Mike talks about this quite a bit, hybrid homeschooling. You can check out his book on that.

Mike McShane: Always be closing. Always be closing. Hybrid Homeschooling: A Guide to the Future of Education available at Amazon.

John Kristof: Absolutely.

So the share of parents who say that they would most prefer their kid to spend two days at home in the school week, went up by five percentage points, which is not insubstantial. When you look at this chart over time among private school parents. And private school parents are important because you can kind of see a trend in a lot of different questions that we ask that private school parents and charter school parents tend to be the parents that are more open to alternative learning options, maybe because they’ve kind of explored that in their own way already. There are as many private school parents who most prefer two days to be spent at home as there are parents who want their kids to be at school completely outside of the home are essentially the same 30% and 31% respectively.

That’s pretty high demand for something that is not completely in-person at a physical school education. And I’ll point out one more thing before we wrap up here. One of my favorite things to look at for a while is learning pods because learning pods are another way to do things alternatively. Learning pods, you’re meeting up with other families and their kids and you more or less hire a private teacher to teach your kids. It’s a very much a hybrid approach, not necessarily like mix within the school week kind of way, but in the very quality and kind of schooling itself. And the vast majority of parents who are in or interested in pods have always said that they’ve done it or looking to do it in addition to or supplementing kids regular schooling, at least since the first wave of school shut downs ended that’s the vast majority of parents have said. And the numbers have switched fairly significantly this year.

Most still view it supplementally, but a huge jump and parents say that they see pods as a substitute for kids’ regular schooling. So there is a demand. Parents are thinking about other ways to do this. Again, this is the third school year of dealing with COVID. And as we’re seeing the results in year three, you can see that some parents are really thinking about other kinds of learning options. That’s hybrid homeschooling, that’s learning pods, sometimes it’s just brainstorming what that would look like. But the demand and imagination is there.

Mike McShane: Well, John, I appreciate you running through the tape there with new stats, fresh information, right up to the last minute of this podcast. So Jen, John, a pleasure as always. As always, we got to give a shout out to Jacob, our podcast producer who’s going to make all of this sound wonderful and then head into your headphones, or car stereo, or wherever you’re listening to us. As always, you can also check out edchoice.morningconsultintelligence.com. You can go up in the upper right-hand corner resource downloads, get the whole questionnaire, get the cross tabs, get the wonderful PowerPoint presentation that’s put together with all these slides that we’ve referenced throughout the day. It was a pleasure having this discussion. I look forward to talking to all of you again next month as we get more stats and we’ll see what trends happened. Did they continue? Did they change? You will have to wait. I look forward to sharing all of that with you in the future. Take care.